old beta version

[Maki]

1.-When you click the blue 'OK' button, the overlay is saved in your tracks database. You can remove the overlay as usual, map button--remove overlays.

I see it now, but I'd swear that in beta 0 after tapping the OK button the "remove overlay" menu voice didn't show. I'd also swear that I already sent this message yesterday, but reality is that I typed it and then closed the browser windows, so don't trust my memory...



The "modify overlay" command apparently only allows to show/hide specific layers, not actually modify them. Is this correct?

2.-Please, explain "If I start moving again a second sms is sent immediately". After cancelling the alarm?

No. If the message is sent because, say, I left the phone unattended long enough and didn't hear the notification, when I start moving again a second "Don't worry" message is sent.



I'm very interested in this feature, I always wanted to ask for it, but I never dared. False alarms are subject to judiciary action, at least here in Italy, a feature like that should be as foolproof and failsafe as possible. I'm a bit worried about two things:

1) automatic activation in the settings. I believe that in the long term it is easy to forget about it. At least there should be a reminder shown every time one starts recording a track

2) possible false positives, or negatives. IMHO also accelerometer and/or gyroscope should be evaluated in order to minimize any risk. But I imagine it's tricky to find the right balance.



At this point I actually tried it a couple of times in real life. I agree that a 1 minute delay should be an option (at least for beta testing, life is short). My observations:

*) I don't like the link to google. My mother wouldn't be able to work out the coordinates and transmit them to the rescue service, nor to see the place on her dumbphone. Plain latitude and longitude IMHO is much better.

*) I hear the notification sound and the phone turns on but I see the lock screen. I think the lock screen should be bypassed, so that even someone who doesn't know how to unlock the phone can interact. Use a slide gesture to cancel, to avoid accidental trigger touching the phone.

*) Rather than saying "the SMS will be sent at 30" and show the elapsed time in a corner, just say "the SMS will be sent in XX seconds" and make it a countdown, it's simpler and more intuitive. And maybe more than 30 seconds.

*) I tested in airplane mode, to simulate a no signal situation. It continues to ring and says that it failed sending. I often find myself in a situation where the phone network is weak and unstable. The SMS should be queued and sent as soon as a signal is available. It can be done, because the stock android messaging app does it. This is one highly overlooked advantage of SMS, unlike phone calls you just need the signal for a fraction of a second. It's beyond me why we still don't have an official emergency app to call an SOS that works by SMS across all Europe on the emergency network, only voice.

*) why not choosing the phone numbers via the contact list?

3.-You always can share your coordinates manually, under map--share map position. The coordinates are sent in two formats.

I know, but it's a complex procedure to follow when you are injured. A command to directly send the SOS could help. With a 30 seconds delay to allow canceling, of course.



Maki

[goosiebn]

I tested in airplane mode, to simulate a no signal situation.

It doesn't simulate anything, it puts Android into aeroplane mode and Android runs with a new set of rules regarding connectivity.



I tried sending an SMS from a messaging app while in aeroplane mode. It also said it couldn't send and didn't queue the message.



G

[Maki]

Airplane mode shuts down the radio so you are in a no signal situation.  Since I cannot turn off the cell tower,  airplane mode is the closest thing I can have to a no coverage area. Of course it's not physically the same thing.



I checked again and the stock android app queues the message (4.3 Galaxy Nexus) so it can and should IMHO be done.

[goosiebn]

So, yeah, looks like the messaging I use doesn't queue un-sent messages

[orux]

So, yeah, looks like the messaging I use doesn't queue un-sent messages

Thank you very much for your tests, specially about SOS alarm.



Yes, I will add a minute, but only for testing. I think in real life give too many false positives.



I also will add an additional control, based on accelerometers/gyro, which will cancel the message with a simple movement.



I think it is necessary that the alarm can be initiated automatically, at least for me. It is important to remove false positives. But the false negatives are much more dangerous. In my case I would forget to manually start the alarm most of the time. Do not want to imagine in a dangerous situation without having initiated the alarm.



I will also add a warning to tell the user that can not start the alarm in airplane mode.



I wish to add the coordinates directly, without link, but SMS have a maximum of 160 characters. And the link has both the coordinates in text, and a link to the map, for those who want to see where you are. Perhaps divide the message into two, I have to study it.



The SMS sent programmatically is not saved by the system until communications are restored, so the app has to retry sending. What worries me most is not consuming too much battery in a dangerous situation, so we'll do that:

1.-The GPS will be changed to eco mode, when you are in a SOS situation.

2.-New attempts to connect will be more spaced each time.

3.-Turn off the screen after XX attempts.





orux

[Lanstronio]

No me envía el sms. La aplicación detecta perfectamente el tiempo de detención preindicado pero no finaliza la transmisión del sms aparece este mensaje:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zc4tbtnqaut9qhf/Screenshot_2015-01-10-21-19-21.png?dl=0">https://www.dropbox.com/s/zc4tbtnqaut9q ... 1.png?dl=0">https://www.dropbox.com/s/zc4tbtnqaut9qhf/Screenshot_2015-01-10-21-19-21.png?dl=0

[goosiebn]

I think there needs to be a countdown alert before the SOS SMS is sent, with an option to postpone for this period of inactivity, so the SOS feature is paused until you move again. Also if the SOS is sent, an option could be available to start a new SMS to the SOS numbers so you can swiftly compose an apolology if it turns out you're really ok, or want to send an update in your condition. This could also double as an easy way to start a standard message home on your ETA, irrispective of the SOS feature?

[Maki]

There are a lot of different needs, it's difficult to find a solution that's perfect for everyone. Actually there are a number of SOS apps on the Play Store, I never found one that was really satisfying... and this beta is already better than them all! :-)



I think that the accelerometer should not cancel the alarm with a simple movement, there should be a threshold. If you are injured with the phone in a pocket just breathing will cancel. There are avalanche transceivers that sense just that to see if you are alive or not.



I suppose that both things should be evaluated together. The accelerometer may give a low value read, for example in a car going straight on a well paved road, but in that case the GPS will confirm that there is no problem. On the contrary the GPS may see only small displacements when you are taking pictures or eating a sandwich, but the accelerometer/gyroscope can confirm you have significant movement.



About the distance threshold I found myself a couple of times in a situation where the GPS jumped a lot (a bit more than 50 meters) despite being stationary. In one case I was in a hut, but the other was a simple shelter. I don't know how you calculate the movement, but I'm afraid that in some cases the alarm may not activate. Do you filter spikes? I still have the GPX if it can be useful to do some analysis.



Regarding the SMS text I think the best thing for emergency use is the coordinates because it is easier to communicate to a rescue service, but I can see the usefulness of a direct link to a map in some cases. What about a preference so that the user can chose?



IMHO battery life is not the main concern when you are in such a situation, sending the message is the absolute priority, after that the phone can even die. Still, no reason to waste energy. So I'd do the following:

1- Turn on the screen to display the warning until the message is cancelled or the countdown finishes, then turn it off immediately since nobody is looking at it anyway and it drains a lot.

2- Turn off the GPS altogether. You already know the position. If afterwards you see movement from the accelerometer then turn the GPS on again (and warn the user)

3- Try sending as long as you can. In remote areas it's very common to have a weak and intermittent signal.



I'd say to check if you are in a "no signal" or "emergency only" before sending, but I'm afraid you can't get that information straight from Android. I remember discussing it with Llama's developer and he said he could only read the signal's strenght and operator code. I trust him but I still find it strange because the phone shows that information to the user in the notification panel and in the lock-screen.



Anyway please don't turn the feature off if airplane mode is enabled, just warn the user that you will not be able to send the SMS. It's pretty common to turn it on and off depending on the needs in long outdoor activities to preserve battery life. It would be a pain to re-enable the SOS too each time.



A custom sound, rather than the default notification, would be useful so that one can use some very audible ringtone just for that. Also maximize the volume bypassing system settings, like alarm clocks do (I haven't checked, probably you are already doing that).



Maki

[goosiebn]

I tested a no signal situation today by putting the phone inside a microwave. When I took it out Orux told me it couldn't send the message. After the signal returned naturally, after Orux had counted it's timer up to about 30, it then sent the message ok. Only tested once, but that seemed fine.

[goosiebn]

I think if the phone warns you it intends to send the message and there's a suitable method of cancelling it- by a good shake, or a button press- then any other sort of detection by the phone to assess your physical state is maybe both overkill and prone to error.



I think some more thought needs to go into the GPS detection though- as mentioned by Maki with the wandering GPS (was the GPS track record settings turned up suitably high with criteria for accuracy) and as shown by the phone in the microwave with no GPS signal.  The detection time should start from the last accurately recorded point and should not trigger if another accurate GPS point has not yet been recorded, even if the time elapses- maybe I don't want the SOS going off just because I've lost GPS signal- a common Android thing.  However, this would mean the moment I step out of the cafe, the SOS would then kick in, which is still not desirable.  But, if I have been walking through a theoretical tunnel, then the SOS wouldn't fire due to the progress I've made when I exit the tunnel.  Or am I wrong and a lack of GPS is a good indicator of SOS?



Also please consider and old feature request of mine that if GPS is lost, or isn't achieved in the first place that Orux should stop the GPS for a short period and then try again for a fix, because stopping and starting GPS is usually enough for me to get an immediate fix if the problem is not an environmental thing.



I'd also consider recording a waypoint when an SMS is sent, in case you need to get back to where the signal was good or to go to where your friend might be travelling to if you find an SOS has gone off by mistake.  Also does the SMS contain the current position (at the time a phone signal was ok and the SMS was sent), or the position when the SOS was initiated (potentially out of date).



Also maybe option for delivery confirmation by SMS?



Is there any appetite for a manual SOS?  It can be used by walking wounded to SMS your position and direction every x mins (and to wait for a signal to send it) so you're not trying to wrestle with the phone and make progress as best you can.  Walking wounded/manual SOS would be a very strong indication to the receiver that this is a real SOS, rather than the automatic one that may mis-fire, so the message should be different.  This could also be good with the waypoint for successful SMS sent feauture.  The app would also still have to be usable for this manual SOS, instead of the current full screen SOS where Orux isn't usable.



G

[Maki]

I think if the phone warns you it intends to send the message and there's a suitable method of cancelling it- by a good shake, or a button press- then any other sort of detection by the phone to assess your physical state is maybe both overkill and prone to error.

The problem is that if you stay in a particular spot for a while (eating or taking pictures) every X minutes you have to cancel the SOS: if you are in an awkward position putting away the camera, taking the backpack off and finding the phone inside it may very well take more than 30 seconds. But if the phone detects a significant "regular" movement it can cancel itself.

Also please consider and old feature request of mine that if GPS is lost, or isn't achieved in the first place that Orux should stop the GPS for a short period and then try again for a fix, because stopping and starting GPS is usually enough for me to get an immediate fix if the problem is not an environmental thing.

So, is this a common thing? It only happened once to lose signal in real life situations and I didn't care. But now that you make me think about that, the other day when I was doing the tests I started the GPS outside and then tried to go back inside; I lost the signal pretty soon and going back outside for a few minutes didn't help to restore it. Stopping and restarting the GPS did the trick pretty much immediately.



Maki

[Lanstronio]

Me podéis aportar alguna idea. Lo que me ocurre es que después de 5 min. Detenido se inicia la cuenta atras de 30 segundos pero transcurridos no manda el sms y vuelve a iniciar la cuenta de los 30 sgd.¿os ppasa a vosotros o si OS manda el  sms?

[orux]

Me podéis aportar alguna idea. Lo que me ocurre es que después de 5 min. Detenido se inicia la cuenta atras de 30 segundos pero transcurridos no manda el sms y vuelve a iniciar la cuenta de los 30 sgd.¿os ppasa a vosotros o si OS manda el  sms?

Buenas;



Comprueba que el número de tlf que pones en la configuración como destinatario del SMS es correcto (le puedes mandar un SMS desde la app de SMS del propio teléfono).



Si reinicia la cuenta nuevamente es que ha habido un problema, no ha podido mandar el mensaje, por varias causas:

         ERROR_GENERIC_FAILURE:

         ERROR_NO_SERVICE:

         ERROR_NULL_PDU:

         ERROR_RADIO_OFF:



orux

[Quercus.JB]

Me podéis aportar alguna idea. Lo que me ocurre es que después de 5 min. Detenido se inicia la cuenta atras de 30 segundos pero transcurridos no manda el sms y vuelve a iniciar la cuenta de los 30 sgd.¿os ppasa a vosotros o si OS manda el  sms?

Buenas;



Comprueba que el número de tlf que pones en la configuración como destinatario del SMS es correcto (le puedes mandar un SMS desde la app de SMS del propio teléfono).



Si reinicia la cuenta nuevamente es que ha habido un problema, no ha podido mandar el mensaje, por varias causas:

         ERROR_GENERIC_FAILURE:

         ERROR_NO_SERVICE:

         ERROR_NULL_PDU:

         ERROR_RADIO_OFF:



orux

A mi me pasa lo mismo, pongo mi propio número, con prefijo internacional y sin el, y no funciona. Pruebo a mandarme un sms y funciona. ¿que puedo hacer? Gracias

[Quercus.JB]

Que sorpresón, la app de sos externa a orux que uso, que probé que funcionaba en su momento, y en la que confiaba mi tranquilidad, tiene el mismo comportamiento que la beta de orux, o sea, que dice que ha enviado el mensaje y no es verdad. Entonces la culpa es de android, que ....da, no se q puede decirnos orux, pero visto lo visto no se si mejor no invertir esfuerzos en esta linea, estoy desconcertado. Saludos.